The story involves former NRA leader Harlon Carter, who in 1977 took control of the National Rifle Association (NRA) during the "Cincinnati Revolution" and turned the organization into a no-compromise, highly partisan entity that embraces extreme positions on the Second Amendment and gun policy.Four years after he took power, the press uncovered a disturbing fact about Carter. On March 3, 1931, a 17-year-old Carter shot and killed 15-year-old Ramón Casiano in Laredo, Texas. After returning home from school that day, Carter was told by his mother that there were three Latino youths loitering near the family's property. Carter left his house, shotgun in tow, to confront them. After finding Casiano and his two companions at a nearby swimming hole, Carter pointed his shotgun at them and ordered them to come with him. Casiano refused, pulled out a knife, and asked Carter if he would like to fight. Carter then pointed the shotgun at Casiano. Casiano laughed and brushed the gun aside while taking a step back. Carter asked Casiano, "You don't think I'd use it?" and then fatally shot him in the chest. After initialy being convicted of murder, Carter was able to successfully appeal and get the case thrown out.
The sick connection between the former NRA leader and George Zimmerman is another good example of the fanaticism of the NRA leadership. Is it any wonder that they're membership often disagrees with the party line, not to mention how small it is compared to the number gun owners at large.
The similarities to the murder of Trayvon Martin are obvious and the NRA again stands at the center of controversy because of their authorship of the "Stand Your Ground" law that has allowed George Zimmerman to remain a free—and armed—man.
La Pierre, who probably learned a great deal from Harlon Carter, employs rhetoric that couldn't possibly appeal to normal people. His ranting about the possible problem they'll face during Obama's second term is so full of lies and distortions that no rational, thinking member could possible accept it.
But apparently some do. Even around here, how many times do our antagonists claim that we want to take ALL the guns away? How often to they liken my version of gun control to Prohibition?
Unfortunately these convenient misconceptions run deep. They make the pro-gun argument sound better that it really is.
What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.
Mike: "Even around here, how many times do our antagonists claim that we want to take ALL the guns away?"
ReplyDeleteDo you think we are ok with you taking ANY guns away?
Mike: "Is it any wonder that they're membership often disagrees with the party line, not to mention how small it is compared to the number gun owners at large."
Why do you suppose they keep paying their dues?
I just recently joined the NRA, thanks to all the comments here. I hadn't joined in the past because the organization is too tied in with one political party. I'd rather see the NRA reaching out more to Democrats and others on the left. There are leftwing gun owners--to some degree, I'm one of them--and gun rights in general will be better defended by appealing across the spectrum. That being said, the job that the NRA does is good work.
DeleteTo Wayne La Pierre, if you read here, Mikeb, Democommie, et al. are responsible for my membership.
Yes, TS, I do think you're OK with taking some guns away, let's say from the maniacs like Loughner and Cho. Better screening would identify some of them before they act.
DeleteGreg, thanks for the laugh.
It's not a joke. I didn't want to join, since I'm not a solid Republican and the NRA is far too tied to that party, but seeing the determination that gun control advocates still have, I signed up for the good guys.
DeleteMikeb, name the make and model of ANY firearm that the Brady Campaign HAS NOT advocated the banning of. If you accept this challenge, I will be back to prove you wrong, using nothing but their own words.
ReplyDeletecheckmate
All right, I'll play. How about the 1911?
DeleteOh, horrors, you mean that automatic and easily concealable handgun that shoots eight bullets at once?
DeleteYeah, Greg, the one that according to Anonymous the Brady Campaing is trying to eliminate.
Delete"The sick connection between the former NRA leader and George Zimmerman..."
ReplyDeleteThe WHAT?
OMG, under that theory, MikeB is a MONSTER!
MikeB lives in Italy. Mussolini was Italian. Mussolini and Hitler had circle jerks together.
"The sick connection between the former Nazi leader and MikeB..."
Every time I think I've had a good laugh, like what Greg said above that my blog being responsible for his finally joining the NRA, you come up with something even funnier.
DeleteMikeb, your side shoots itself in the foot by never showing any willingness to move our direction. You never answer the question as to who is a good gun owner and what are good uses of guns. You never tell us where your desire for control will end. That's why we can't believe you when you claim that you don't want to take away all guns.
ReplyDeleteBut consider the incident described in the article. That was in 1931. What were the rules then about what a property owner could do if people were tresspassing on his land? Was his land out in the country? Your favorite solution, 911, didn't exist. Neither did cell phones. I'm surprised that he was charged at all.
Sorry Greg, but maybe you haven't been paying attention. I obviously focus on the misuse of guns, but I also occasionally post what I consider to be a good, albeit rare, DGU.
DeleteI've stated many times that even if all my gun control rules could be put into effect, most of you would still have guns.
You're the one who keeps exaggerating my position on that to make me seem more radical than I am.
My claim is that you're more radical than you realize. Your proposals would have effects that perhaps you haven't taken into account, and they would fail to accomplish your goals.
DeleteThat filthy mexican bandito, pollutin' a good ol' MurKKKin swimmin hole. I'm only surprised that Carter didn't shoot all three of them--in the back.
ReplyDeleteThat Greg Camp and other commenters can not only excuse what was clearly a case of manslaughter under any state's laws but, also, continue to mis-represent mikeb302000's position on gun ownership would surprise me I didn't know, from previous threads, that they will do or so anything to avoid responsibility for criminal acts while exercising their GODGIVEN GUNZ RIGHTZ!!
FatWhiteMan:
"MikeB lives in Italy. Mussolini was Italian. Mussolini and Hitler had circle jerks together."
And mikeb302000's membership in the Nazi or Fascist party has been verified? Wait, there's more, mikeb302000's CHAIRMANSHIP of one or both of those organizations has been verified?
Did you note, Democommie, that I was asking questions about the event, not stating a position? Why must you always jump to a conclusion? It's better to get the details and discuss the matter before deciding how to interpret something.
DeleteDon't need to verify it since it is as a tenable link as Zimmerman is to a shooting that occurred 60 years before he was born.
DeleteBTW, did you verify Zimmerman is an NRA member?
Keep posting, democommie. You do our side more good than harm with your blind vitriol.
ReplyDeleteOnce mikeb finally soaks that in, you will be banned and sorely missed from an entertainment standpoint.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete"Did you note, Democommie, that I was asking questions about the event, not stating a position? Why must you always jump to a conclusion? It's better to get the details and discuss the matter before deciding how to interpret something."
ReplyDeleteYou're an English teacher? Are you sure that you're not an ESL student?
"Mikeb, your side shoots itself in the foot by never showing any willingness to move our direction. You never answer the question as to who is a good gun owner and what are good uses of guns. You never tell us where your desire for control will end. That's why we can't believe you when you claim that you don't want to take away all guns."
Four sentences in that paragraph, all of them declaratory.
"But consider the incident described in the article. That was in 1931. What were the rules then about what a property owner could do if people were tresspassing on his land? Was his land out in the country? Your favorite solution, 911, didn't exist. Neither did cell phones. I'm surprised that he was charged at all."
Seven sentences in that paragraph. Two of the sentences are interrogatory, four are declaratory. The first sentence is a request, but not a question in the sense that it requires an answer.
So, two sentences of twelve are interrogatory, about 17% (I rounded up). The bulk of the sentences are all declarations/accusations—they surer than fuck aren’t “questions”. All four of the sentences in the first paragraph ARE stating a position; they’re stating mikeb302000’s position, regardless that you aren’t qualified to take that action.
The two sentences in the second paragraph that actually DO ask a question have answers that you can find by yourself, except that you’re too lazy to do a google, pick up a phone or take some other action that might be considered “work”. Get off your ass and educate yourself.
“Keep posting, democommie. You do our side more good than harm with your blind vitriol.
Once mikeb finally soaks that in, you will be banned and sorely missed from an entertainment standpoint"
Ummm, is there a point in there somewhere? One that relates to the post? Or are you just going to exercise your other GODGIVEN RIGHT (the first being to haz all teh gunz you can get AND carry them, everywhere), whining endlessly like the tonetrollsockpuppet that you are?
This term, tone troll, is of questionable value. A suggestion that the discussion should remain polite doesn't make one a tone troll. Many of us here have demonstrated that we are interested in the main subject. The fact that we also wish to have a civilized conversation about it is a point in favor of this site and many of its participants.
ReplyDelete"This term, tone troll, is of questionable value."
ReplyDeleteAs are the majority of your comments.
This:
"A tone troll is a serious-minded person who wants only to raise the level of discussion in the dire cesspits of the New Atheist web. Or, possibly, they're a pompous blowhard who, lacking such frivolous accoutrements as an actual argument, attempts to distract attention from said deficit by complaining that their opposition uses dirty words and ought, really, to have some strict nanny figure—possibly Mary Poppins—to wash out their mouths with soap."
is from here (http://pharyngula.wikia.com/wiki/Tone_troll)
It makes specific reference to New Atheist web threads, but it's main points are quite applicable elsewhere.
This comment:
"AnonymousMar 31, 2012 12:22 PM
Keep posting, democommie. You do our side more good than harm with your blind vitriol.
Once mikeb finally soaks that in, you will be banned and sorely missed from an entertainment standpoint."
is a poster child for tone trolling. Live with the truth, it will set you free.
You're a sick man.
ReplyDeleteThis may sound hard to believe, but Harlon Carter was a cousin to my husband's Mother. We used to attend annual family reunions near Granbury, TX. Several of the Carters were members of the Border Patrol. One reunion in the 70's was attended by Harlon Carter. He was, of course, the hero and center of attention due to his status with the NRA. I overheard a very animated discussion at one table with these Border Patrol members and others where they were discussing and laughing about the "wetbacks" they used to pick off as they swam across the Rio Grande. I asked them if they were serious and they verified the info again. After my husband came over and heard the same thing, we left and have never attended another Carter reunion (next one is this weekend). We were appalled, saddened, and sickened by this discussion. I always wondered if it was really true until I read the story today about Harlon killing someone when he was 17. All the pieces fell in place. We are ashamed to admit that we are related to such a despicable person who is so revered by so many people. Why?
ReplyDeleteWhy? That's the million dollar question.
ReplyDeleteThanks for you personal story.