All right here's the deal with car comparisons. Cars kill 40,000 a year even though they have licensing of drivers, registration of cars and insurance requirements. Without those restrictions the death toll would be 100,000.
Guns kill 30,000 a year and do not have licensing of gun owners, registration of guns and insurance requirements. If guns and gun owners enjoyed the same restriction as cars, the death toll would be 5,000 a year.
100,000 for cars, 5,000 for guns. That's more or less what we're looking at.
What do you think, make sense?
As is always the case with Farago's and others' idiotic comparisons of the two sets of statistics is that peoples’ guns are used (except by complete whackjob survivalists) far, far less than are their automobiles.
ReplyDeleteThis link (http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Traffic/story?id=485098&page=1) is to a 2005 article that says 220 U.S. drivers were averaging 1.5 hours per day in their cars. That amounts to 330M hours/day, nationally. Those hours are spent in all sorts of uncontrolled and uncontrollable conditions of traffic patterning, road and vehicle serviceability and mental and physical states of the drivers.
There are, according to various estimates, as many as 300+M private gunz in this country. Of those it's a fair bet that the vast majority are NOT used an hour per day. Many millions of them are not used at all; they simply sit in closets or other storage spaces.
There is one valid comparison that can probably be made between gunz and motor vehicles. About 10% of U.S. adults are "problem drinkers". Of that number, most have drivers licenses and drive their cars. The same distribution applies to gun owners.
If somebody is drunk and driving, their chances of being detected, arrested, convicted and penalized vary, but their is a concerted and ongoing effort to remove them from the roads. Not so for whackjob assholez and drunks wit teh gunz.
That's the other argument. The average gun owner doesn't use his gun nearly as much as the average car owner uses his car.
DeleteHow do you define use? I carry just about everywhere I go.
DeleteYes, that's why ONLY gun owners like you can be compared to the average car owner.
DeleteYes, that's why ONLY gun owners like you can be compared to car owners.
DeleteThere are several million of us, and more start carrying every day.
DeleteSame rules for guns as cars, huh? Ok, I don't need a license, registration or insurance to operate a motor vehicle on private property. I can operate the biggest, fastest, most powerful automobile that I want without government permission. I can transport a non registered, non insured vehicle upon any public roadway. I don't need a license to operate a motor vehicle upon a public roadway in the event of an emergency and persons 15 years and older can get a learner's permit and operate a motor vehicle if they are accompanied by a licensed operator. The way I see it, I'd only have to have a license to operate my firearm outside of private property, except in the event of an emergency. Cool.
ReplyDeleteOne thing you overlooked, though. Automobiles are used to facilitate crime way more than firearms, so I guess the whole license, registration and insurance requirements don't really prevent automobile related crimes either.
"The way I see it, I'd only have to have a license to operate my firearm outside of private property, except in the event of an emergency. Cool."
ReplyDeleteYou people would shit yourselves if such a provision were even spoken about by the lege. You're hypocrites who think that the rest of the world is stupid enough to simply accept your assertions with no backing. Let me know when you next take a job that requires you to have a gun, just so you can get to the office.
False equivalency is a staple of the reichwing (which is heavily correlated with the ranks of the teh gunzloonz).
"One thing you overlooked, though. Automobiles are used to facilitate crime way more than firearms, so I guess the whole license, registration and insurance requirements don't really prevent automobile related crimes either"
And how many murders are committed with automobiles every year?
You people would shit yourselves if such a provision were even spoken about by the lege
DeleteDoing away with NFA, yes I would shit myself. How great would that be? Only needing an operator permit to shoot my machine gun anywhere but private property and no government interference to use silencers would be a dream come true.
And how many murders are committed with automobiles every year?
Between 1999 and 2009 there was an average of 326 intentional homicides with motor vehicles (this does not include DUIs), but that's not what I said. I said vehicles are used to facilitate crime, you know, driving to and from robberies and drug deals,transporting kidnapped persons, etc, etc, etc.* It seems your conniption got in the way of your comprehension.
* yes, I know only one etc was required.
"Between 1999 and 2009 there was an average of 326 intentional homicides with motor vehicles"
DeleteDon't forget suicides! The other side just loves to include that stat on their "gun deaths" statistic. Without it, their arguments always fall apart.
Your side has such a hard time understanding that firearms are a constitutionally protected right. You also live in the fantasy world where risk can be eliminated. Of course, only you could regard licensing, registration, and other restrictions as something to be enjoyed.
ReplyDeleteDemocommie: “You people would shit yourselves if such a provision were even spoken about by the lege.”
ReplyDeleteNot really. It would open all kinds of gun ownerships that we don’t already have, and the best thing it would do for gun control is disallow constitution carry (which only a handful of states have). The car restrictions are all about operating it on public road- or the equivalent of concealed or open carry in incorporated areas.
Then there is the level of punishment factor. I have been caught driving an unregistered car on public roads before. Do you know what the cop did to me? He gave me a warning that turns into a real ticket unless I get the registration renewed within 90 days and provide proof at a highway patrol office. AND let me drive away with my unregistered car. It didn’t even cost me anything, other than the slight inconvenience of making a trip to the station. For a gun, that’s a felony charge, which pretty much ruins a person’s life. Now you tell me who would need a change of shorts if an officer hands the gun back to the owner and says “you should really get this registered. Have a nice day.”
Now let’s say CA treated cars like they do guns. I would have been cuffed and thrown into the back of the police cruiser and my car would have been towed to an impound lot. I would have been charged and convicted of a felony, and sentenced to prison. My car would be confiscated by the state with no compensation, and then it would have been crushed into a cube and sent to a metal recycling plant regardless of its value. The police would add my car to the statistics as one more car taken off the road helping to save the environment, despite the fact that the evil car companies in their pursuit of profits will just make another.
DeleteBilly Baldfaceliar sez:
ReplyDelete"Ok, I don't need a license, registration or insurance to operate a motor vehicle on private property. I can operate the biggest, fastest, most powerful automobile that I want without government permission. I can transport a non registered, non insured vehicle upon any public roadway. I don't need a license to operate a motor vehicle upon a public roadway in the event of an emergency and persons 15 years and older can get a learner's permit and operate a motor vehicle if they are accompanied by a licensed operator."
and
"Doing away with NFA, yes I would shit myself. How great would that be? Only needing an operator permit to shoot my machine gun anywhere but private property and no government interference to use silencers would be a dream come true."
Neither comment having a thing to do with my comment about gunz and motor vehicles not being equivalent.
"Between 1999 and 2009 there was an average of 326 intentional homicides with motor vehicles (this does not include DUIs)"
Citation required.
326 intentional homicides with cars (which are used every day of the week by hundreds of millions of people v teh gunz which are NOT) compared with something like 12,000 murders per year with gunz? You think that makes arming the populace a good idea?
I've been pulled over and ticketed for no registration. It's a discretionary situation. If the car is unregistered the cops have some leeway in determining whether they will arrest you.
We always, however, get back to the same bullshit false equivalencies. A refresher for the idiotz wit teh gunz. Cars are NOT primarily designed to kill, gunz are. The vast majority of motor vehicle operators would not run another car off the road because that vehicle's driver is a "threat".
Nice try, no cigar.
"Your side has such a hard time understanding that firearms are a constitutionally protected right. You also live in the fantasy world where risk can be eliminated. Of course, only you could regard licensing, registration, and other restrictions as something to be enjoyed."
Wrong, dumbfuck. I have no problem at all recognizing that, currently, SCotUS has not ruled on a lot of 2nd amendment cases in a clear and unambiguous way. I'm fairly confindent that if they ever did, ruling that you gunzloonz don't have "unlimited rightz"--which is what all of your argue--and that your collectionz might be subject to all sorts of controlz, that a lot of you (probably all of you that comment here) would simply break what you consider to be a bad law.
And, Greggie, honey, I'm well aware that life is rife with risk. I'm just not all that interested in having an asshole like you carrying a gun and increasing the danger to the general public.
Democommie, you aren't a Southerner, so why are you calling me honey?
DeletePerhaps you'd like to back up your claim that I'm a danger to the general public. I haven't shot anyone; I haven't had a negligent discharge, and I haven't displayed my handgun in public. Some danger. Do you have any specific danger that you think that I create, or are you simply following the tradition of your side and confusing me with the tiny number of persons whose stories get reported here?
Neither comment having a thing to do with my comment about gunz and motor vehicles not being equivalent.
DeleteI see you've worked yerself up in to a frenzy, slow down hoss 'fore ya give yerself one o' them aneurysms.
I'm not equating firearms with automobiles. mikeb suggested that licencing, registration and insurance of firearms, like automobiles, would reduce 'gun death'. I stated the obvious fact that it would not and those requirements are only for automobiles that are operated outside of private property. Had your rage not gotten in the way of your reading, you may have COMPREHENDED that.
Citation required.
CDC 1999-2009. I can't link to the results page because the WISQARS website doesn't operate that way.
compared with something like 12,000 murders
According to the FBI UCR for the year 2010, Table 1, there were 14,748 murders. 67.5% are committed with a firearm, which leaves us with 9,955 firearm related murders. Fact checking might do you some good sometimes.
Cars are NOT primarily designed to kill
You, sir, are absolutely correct. Automobiles are designed to transport people safely, yet KILL more people than teh gunz, even with the required license, registration and insurance.
"I'm not equating firearms with automobiles. mikeb suggested that licencing, registration and insurance of firearms, like automobiles, would reduce 'gun death'. I stated the obvious fact that it would not"
ReplyDeleteFact not in evidence, much less "obvious".
"CDC 1999-2009. I can't link to the results page because the WISQARS website doesn't operate that way.
Is NOT a citation. It's a suggestion.
"According to the FBI UCR for the year 2010, Table 1, there were 14,748 murders. 67.5% are committed with a firearm, which leaves us with 9,955 firearm related murders. Fact checking might do you some good sometimes."
Oh, okay, point taken. So, 10K deaths, give or take per year, compares with your rather specific 362 (still need a CITATION, not a suggestion of where to look for one--that would be your FAIL) deaths per years? IOW, the rate of intentional homicides by automobile v intentional homicides by firearm (362/9965) = 3.62% instead of 362/12000 = 3.01%? So only 27.62 times as many people are intentionally killed with gunz v automobile and not 33.whatevah? That's an indictment of the automobile as being a much more dangerous "weapon" than a gun?
When you lying morons can show that teh gunz are used under the same conditions and with the same frequency as motor vehicles, c'mon back and show us the stats.
Fact not in evidence, much less "obvious".
DeleteJust because your eyes are closed, it doesn't mean that you're invisible.
IOW, the rate of intentional homicides by automobile v intentional homicides by firearm
There you go losing focus again. You should talk to your doctor about that.
"Just because your eyes are closed, it doesn't mean that you're invisible."
DeleteJust because you're too fucking stupid to understand that an unsupported assertion is not a fact doesn't mean you're correct in your surmise.
"There you go losing focus again. You should talk to your doctor about that."
First, I would have to know what to talk to him about. Your comment is word salad.
Nice too see you're still keeping it classy, democommie.
ReplyDeleteAnonymousMar 26, 2012 03:27 PM;
ReplyDeleteNice to know that you're still the same lame, gutless fucking piece-of-shit that you and all of your sockpuppetz have been since you started polluting the intertoobz.
I'm still waiting for you to explain how I'm an actual danger to the public, rather than simply someone who makes you nervous.
Delete"I'm still waiting for you to explain how I'm an actual danger to the public, rather than simply someone who makes you nervous."
ReplyDeleteSo's Trayvon Martin.
Hey, Deadeye Greggiepie, I don't think you're a danger to anyone, as long as you don't haz teh gunz. You're on record as saying that you would kill someone over whatever cash is in your pocket--that makes you a coldhearted piece of shit in my book, and crazy as the mad hatter. That AND gunz make you a danger.
In other words, Democommie, you have no answer.
DeleteLet's try again: I have guns. I carry a handgun wherever it's legal to do so. I know the rules of self defense. How am I an actual danger?
As I told you many times on the question of someone trying to rob me, if the guy just asks for my money with no threat of force or no opportunity to use force against me, I'll shake my head and walk away. The only time that I'd shoot someone is if that person is using potentially lethal force against me. What is your problem with that?
democommieMar 27, 2012 12:17 PM
ReplyDelete"I'm still waiting for you to explain how I'm an actual danger to the public, rather than simply someone who makes you nervous."
So's Trayvon Martin.
You mean the
17yo
6' tall
180 lbs
football player
Who, instead of going home after being confronted by "a gun wielding crazy"....
Ran after and re-confronted "a gun wielding crazy" knocking him down repeatedly banging his head on the pavement/sidewalk till, "Zimmermen was bleeding from the back of his head"
That "Made N'gg'r" (street slang - gang member, his own words on facebook), Trayvon Martin, kicked out of school for among other thing.....
burglary tools
vandalism/graffiti
12 pieces of jewelry
baggie with pot residue....
Zimmermen was an idiot for getting out of his car....
Martin was an idiot for instead of going home, going back and assaulting/battering Zimmerman.....
Tommie:
ReplyDeleteOut on parole or have you been released from the neckbolt tightening facility?
You and the rest of your gunzloonzpalz all want to sit in judgment, play prosecutor and carry out death sentences on the people you're afraid of.
Sooner of later you'll run into someone who isn't cowed by your bullying and then, well, bad shit will happen.
Zimmerman is a piece of shit, as are those who excuse his murderous gunzloonery.
I don't excuse Zimmerman he should have stayed in the car and reported what he saw....
ReplyDeleteI also don't excuse Trayvon Martin, there are witnesses that saw him on top of Mr.Z banging Mr Z's head into the sidewalk, before a shot was heard, does that sound like the sound of a rational person....
Or a bully/street thug, wanting to make a name for himself.....