Tuesday, June 12, 2012

Accidental Shooting of ND Young Man by Himself - Under Investigation (ha-ha)

The Daily News of Wahpeton ND reports

Zackary Alan Stahn, 20, Wyndmere, accidentally shot himself in the wrist Friday night. He was transported by ambulance to the hospital with non-life threatening injuries.

The press release said Stahn was reportedly cleaning his .22 rifle at about 11 p.m. when he shot himself in the wrist.

His condition is not known at this time and the accident is under investigation by the Sheriff’s Office.
What's your opinion? Do you think his daddy taught him the basic rules of gun safety when he was younger? What could account for such dangerous negligence? Remember with the same exact action, he could have killed someone.

The pro-gun extremists are quick to forgive incidents like this, they're just accidents, they say.  These are the same guys who continually remind us that you cannot take away someone's gun rights because he might do something in the future.

Well, my one-strike-you're-out should be right up their alley.  People who have gun "accidents" have proven themselves to be negligent and dangerous to themselves and others. No one of them should get a second chance at that.

What's your opinion?  Please leave a comment.


  1. You didn’t answer this question last time I asked, so I’ll ask again. You keep wanting to punish the action more so than the result by saying it shouldn’t matter if no one was hurt (because someone could have been hurt or killed). You’ve said this before in the case of a dropped gun where it went off and hit a wall. So, if you are going to punish the negligent action equally, do you apply your same “one-strike-you’re-out” policy to someone who drops a loaded gun and it doesn’t discharge. The action is identical- the mishandling of a gun such that it falls to the floor. Results can vary from: “thunk” to “bang” to “bang-ouch” to “bang-dead”, but you are saying they should all be punished equally, right?

  2. TS: I understand that you fervently wish to distract from the larger point by concentrating on minutiae.

    Gunloons used to argue (and some still do) that it was impossible for a firearm to discharge if dropped. Given the widespread number of occurences showing this argument was false, most gunloons abandoned it. But the issue raises two important points--first, the design of most firearms is poor; that is, relatively minor mistakes or accidents can cause potentially deadly results. No other product exists on the market that when misused in such a minor fashion can produce fatalities or serious injuries. Think about it: cars are designed to withstand relatively serious misuse of accidents without harming people.

    Second, it points up the fact that many people simply aren't capable of safely handling firearms.

    1. Jadegold, do not try to apply statements about yourself to us. Look at the total number of accidents as compared to the total number of gun owners. The fraction is tiny. I don't know what your definition of many is, but to me, that needs to be larger than one percent.

    2. It is a topic that Mike keeps bringing up, Jade. Punish the action not the result, he says.

      Almost every modern gun won’t discharge if dropped. Gun manufactures have been making safety design improvements on their own- not through legislation. The thing is, not all guns out there are modern- a good percentage of them aren’t. You are looking at some incident and applying it to all firearms by claiming the design of most of them is poor. It is like pointing to a case where a driver died in a Trabant and using that to claim most car designs are poor.

      Jadegold: “No other product exists on the market that when misused in such a minor fashion can produce fatalities or serious injuries.”

      How about motorcycles? 72 motorcycle accidental deaths per 100,000 a year. For guns it is 0.2- a factor of 360.

    3. Too many people look at their own inability to use mechanical devices correctly and wish to force others into a similar state. Look up Kurt Vonnegut's short story, "Harrison Bergeron," for an illustration of what that kind of thinking leads to.

    4. Greg says the fraction is tiny, but I think he's talking about deaths. Add injuries and it's not so tiny. Then add all the injuries that are minor enough to not get reported.

      Then we get to my favorite ones, those in which by sheer luck no one is injured. And finally, as TS reminded me, all those clumsy gun owners who keep dropping their "modern guns" that do not discharge. They count too.

      You don't have a tiny fraction any more. You've got gun owners fucking up with their guns left and right.

  3. Greggy: You claim the number of firearm accidents as compared to the number of gun owners is tiny. Here's why you're wrong. First, the number is "tiny" because it represents only those accidents that are reported. Unless, you're trying to claim that each instance where a gun is mishandled is reported and recorded.

    Second, each and every firearm accident is and was preventable through better gun design and better-qualified gun owners.

    1. Jadegold, be specific. How many firearms accidents occur in a year? You can't guess or report what you feel and expect us to believe you. We can only work with the numbers that we have. Of course, why anyone would want to report to the likes of you is beyond me. But even doubling the number of reported incidents still results in less than one percent of total gun owners. Are you saying that a large percentage of us have accidents that go unreported? What's your evidence?

  4. Greggy: Do you believe each and every firearm-related mishap is reported? Or do you suppose it's a number higher than the number recorded?

    If we use your number (1%), its not as small a number as you would wish for us to believe. For example, if commercial aviation had a 1% accident rate--there probably wouldn't be any commercial airlines and the cost of insurance for those who fly would be prohibitively expensive.

    1. Jadegold,

      1. Lay off the Greggy shit. Speak like an adult.

      2. I don't care if every incident is reported. As I said, why would someone report an accident if no one is hurt? But I asked you to put numbers to your hints. You think there are many more than do get reported, so give us your evidence.

      3. Comparing airline accidents to gun accidents is silly. The aviation industry is a regulated and collective sector. You're comparing a public activity to a private one. Swiming pools or ladders or similar would be a more apt comparison.